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Pow Wow:Bronx River Center & New York Hip-Hop Clubs
- JayQuan
- 15 hours ago
- 14 min read
By Troy L. Smith
Troy L. : When did you first rock the mic?
Pow Wow: It was about '77 or '78. The first place I ever picked up the device called at mic was in the gym at J.H.S.123 Morrison by the Bruckner expressway.
Troy L. : So, what made you pick up the mic?
Pow Wow: Listening to Dota- Rock and Whipper Whip. I use to always listen to them cause I was a dancer. One day we were up in 63-school yard. I am listening to Whip and Dot and I am
digging them so much they made me want to start rockin' the mic. Dot and Whip my
boys.
Troy L. : What originally was being done in Bronx River Center in the daytime?
Pow Wow: They had every thing going on in there Karate class, boxing, after school center, senior citizen care, basketball tournament, talent shows. It was a 2-story building so we had the
dojo going on on the second floor. The center was right in the middle of the projects. We
use to give parties and give money back to the center for books and things trips to Action
Park with the kids. We use to give back a lot. They don’t do party’s there any longer but
it is still open. To be honest we stopped rockin in there cause it was getting to wild in
there. Mr. Skinner who ran it was not feeling us from Jump Street. We had a good ten-
year run.
Troy L. : Who were all the crews under Zulu?
Pow Wow: Jazzy 5, Cosmic Force, Soul Sonic Force and Devastating 2 (God Bless Malibu who
passed away about 5 years ago) D.st. also rocked with us. However, Soul Sonic was the
main crew. Bam knew when it was time to get busy me, Globe and Jazzy got busy! Bam
had the records, Biggs was rappin' but he had his eyes on the door.
Troy L.: Nevertheless, Cosmic had Lisa Lee and Ikey?
Pow Wow I am going to tell you about that. Lisa Lee was originally down with Soul Sonic. What
happen was the first time we went down to Paul Winley records to do our first record we
did not go, Bam took Cosmic instead. However, Lisa Lee did not know she thought Soul
Sonic was going. Therefore, she wound up doing the record with them.
Troy L.: So if she was originally down with y'all. Then your crew would have been a house.
Pow Wow: Well originally Hutch Hutch was down with us he was right up the hill from me on 170 st. and Washington. A little bit away from Theodore, who was 168 th st. and Boston Rd.
Break Out, Keith Caesar (That’s Keith Keith) and Jazzy Jeff were all close to were I lived
at just to give you an idea how much talent we had in this area of the Bronx. Globe was
not down yet. My younger sister introduced me to Globe and I use to teach him how to
dance. Globe came to my house one morning telling me he wanted to be an m.c.
So he says I am going to write some stuff and I am going to come at you. I say o.k. cool. That
was the summer of 77. Towards the fall or winter, he knocks on my door and starts
saying his rhyme. “People people hear my voice” and it was so cold in my house cause
we didn’t have no steam I was standing around the stove getting warm so I started
beating on my stove while Globe started rappin. I said hold up man this boy sounds good.
This something about him. So I said lets sit down and start something together.
Harmonizing was what was going on at that time and me and Hutch wasn’t clicking like I
wanted us to. Troy, Globe filled the void.
Troy L.: Was there any other type of music being played at Bronx River like Disco or something?
Pow Wow: Just stone cold Hip-Hop. Disco was not cutting it there. Not for nothing but same thing at Flash party’s. Yes, you go there to see girls but you mostly went there to B-boy. Because Flash was playing that B-boy cold Hip-Hop sound.
Troy L.: What was the first time you played in Harlem (Manhattan)?
Pow Wow: We played with Donald Dee one time on 133 rd st. What’s the building or project that is like a block away from the Hudson River. Where the 1 train goes by.
Troy L.: Manhattan Ville projects
Pow Wow: Yes we played there one night with Donald Dee. We were working the door that night. These cats came to the door talking about they want to bring their guns in. So, we took
their guns from them. These cats came back kind of deep. This night is when I gave
Bambaataa his props. I knew he was a bad mother------. Nevertheless, he is a powerful
man. But he ain’t never show me know power like this.
I said, “Bam it’s deep, look out the window he looked out the little window in the gym. They had about five cars outside waiting. I am saying to my self “some body is not going to make it”. I got my clips but ain’t nobody else bring no iron. Bam said, “I ain’t worried about that” “give me a phone”. 15 minutes later, that street was flooded. Bam said, “ain’t know body going to mess with me.” Them cats that were trying to bring it to us bowed down to us. In addition, they did
not get their joints back.
Troy L.: What was the crime like inside Bronx River center?
Pow Wow: (Pow Wow starts laughing) high-level, high-level. Brothers caught it. Especially when n------ came over with that bulls---. A perfect example it was about 15 dudes from Brooklyn
came up.
Troy L.: Came all the way to the Bronx?
Pow Wow: Yea they knew somebody who knew somebody that’s how that went down but it was too late. These cats all night just getting up doing wild s---.
Troy L.: They were asking for it.
Pow Wow: There you go.
Troy L.: I’m surprised you didn’t get them soon as they started.
Pow Wow: Nah Nah you know what? I cannot speak for any other Zulu that I do not know about. All I can speak about are the brothers I rolled with. We were not troublemakers. Word
straight up Troy the brothers I was running with that were really holding s--- down. You
had to have some type of knuckle game. And if you didn’t have one they would teach you
and give you one. Then Troy when the s--- hit the fan, (we had our time to rally out like a
bunch of pirates know doubt). But majority of the time and this is straight up. Say you
came with 6 cats and things got thick right, we could swarm on you and f--- you up. But
we didn’t do that unless you was that type of mother f------ caliber
Troy L That deserved it! So you would give them a fair one.
Pow Wow: There you go. They tell you to pick one. Who ever he pick you fought him. If you won
you walked out. Straight up they did not jump you. If you won, they let you walk out.
Now if you want to be one of those fools that went ballistic and try to get crazy that is
when we turn the force on. You know what I am saying and just nip and bud that. Let me
tell you something out of all the Hip-Hop parties ours were the most peaceful.
Troy L.: Hold up you just said crime was high post in there.
Pow Wow: Yea but this is what I mean. In Bronx River projects period. Bronx River projects was the wildest projects in the Bronx. Statistically speaking.
Troy L.: You weren’t from Bronx River projects originally?
Pow Wow: My family always lived there. One of my older brothers on my father’s side lived there as well as an aunt. Because of some trauma my aunt was going through, I was sent there for therapeutic reasons. So my mother (god bless her soul) use to take me there a lot when I was little so as I got older I just stayed there. Going back and forth. Like my second
home. Back to Zulu we also had inner beefs. Over who was going to do what. But
outsiders where the ones who got it.
Troy L.: Well what outsiders? Who in the world would come inside of there?
Pow Wow: Well we had a few outsiders but we mostly stayed to our selves. We eliminated that.
Either you going to come in here and have fun or do something stupid and get hurt.
Troy L.: So do you remember how that saying started “come in peace or leave in pieces”?
Pow Wow: Nah that was always a cliché in the streets to me.
Troy L: I hear you but they said that there was a sign in front of the projects that said that just
before you came in. do you remember that?
Pow Wow: Yes I remember that. Back then we called Bronx River baby Vietnam. The home of
Gods. Mayor Koch came to Bronx River to have meetings with us cause we use to put it
on the cops.
Troy L.: Were there any Zulu Queens.
Pow Wow: What, yes. Mrs. Kie Ann, Lisa Lee, Deb-O. Deb-O was the leader as far as I was concern.That chick was big and bad. This was a mean rough momma. You watch Steve Harvey show, that girl Coretta, that character is how Deb-O got down. She was not having it I use to see her lay chicks out and fellas, I never seen her lose.
Troy L.: So how she making out today?
Pow Wow: I seen her brother Troy on Bronx River day and he said she is doing O.K.
Troy L." So what about Nae Nae?
Pow Wow: Nae Nae was running around with Islam
Troy L.: Wasn’t Funk machine with Islam, Kid Vicious and Donald Dee down with yall?
Pow Wow: Yea they were all Zulu but they were not under Bam’s guidance. There was division’s.
Islam really had the Mayberry crew down with him. My man O-Z and Caesar and the rest
of the crew. They were all Back Spades. They were from a little section in the Bronx we
called Mayberry over there I think by Common Wealth ave. or Beach ave. We called it
Mayberry because it was in a quit section of the Bronx like Mayberry on the Andy
Griffin Show.
Troy L. So, have you ever been to or rocked Harlem World?
Pow Wow: Once, as far as rockin it, I killed it, ripped it apart. Globe was not there but Ikey Cee,
mostly Cosmic Force and me. The first time I got there, I was just hanging out with my
fellas from Harlem. It was me, Son Dance, Roscoe, Dynamite, Ever Ready, Photo, Manic
(who use to walk around with Dynamite) these were my Zulu brothers. At this time, I had
an apartment up in Delanor Village. Now my other brothers I was runnin with that were
not Zulu but lived in Harlem, were I-van, Gamie-O, Buster, and Skinny.
Troy L.: Damn kid you was runnin with some thorough brothers back then.
Pow Wow: For sure they were like my brothers. We be up in the game room, the Royal Flush all that. When I look back on my life I say dam Wow, God has blessed you to meet many people
on the good side and bad side.
Troy L.: What about the T- Connection?
Pow Wow We owned it! Meaning we were always there. However, I liked Bronx River better.
Troy L. Seem as if they had a different flavor of girls at Bronx River then T- Connection. Like the
girls at the River were harder.
Pow Wow: Bronx River girls were not as fast as T- Connection girls. Bronx River girls were more
home settled. They had money.
Troy L. You going to tell me them Bronx River Girls were more settle then T- Connection Girls?
Pow Wow: Yes because they were not exposed to as much as the chicks further up at the Tee.
Troy L. Was there any difference between the Hip Hop in Bronx River and the hip hop in T-
connection.
Pow Wow: Yes it was rawer in Bx River, then in T- Connection cause at the River, is the essence of Hip-Hop. They were playing stuff like “Square Biz” that was not played in The River.
Once the real Hip-Hop evolved that is when T- Connection came into play. Like
Garrison’s basement, which was Flash’s spot on Garrison ave, 1111 fox street. D.J.
Smokey’s spot which was called “Over the Dover” on 174 th and Boston Rd. and that
was a movie theater T- Connection was not on the map yet. Matter fact Smokey who had
D.J. Roscoe running with him was pulling the crowd from Herc and Flash. The B-Boys
use to come to Flash and Herc’s parties, but then they started checking Smokey. Even the
Nigger twins who was bad and real good at what they do but mostly drove around with
Herc and rock at his parties came around and one day to the “Third avenue Ballroom”
where the L-Brothers were rockin, man “Burnt face Melvin and Black Amy tore there ---
up”. Those were the first days, then came T- Connection.
Troy L.: So how did you feel about Harlem World?
Pow Wow: I loved Harlem World. However, to be honest the girls were more materialistic in
Harlem then in the Bronx. As far as the crews from Harlem that played the music, I loved
them all. I respected them cause they had their way of doing it. It was the Harlem Way.
Its not as if they went up to the Bronx copied us came back down and started doing it the
Bronx way. They did it the Harlem way. Say like in Florida, they got there on thing. The
pattern was basically the same “four or 5 m.c.s” “get a girl”. but when it came down to
rocking there style they were unique it was beautiful.
They didn’t come out sounding like Melle Mel, they didn’t come out sounding like Soul Sonic, they didn’t come out sounding like L- Brothers they came out sounding like Moe Dee or Master Don or Fearless Four that’s what I liked about them. Sorry wasn’t feeling Jeckle and Hyde or Johnnie Wa and Rayvon because that was like the Disco part of Harlem. Eddie Cheba, D.J. Hollywood. It wasn’t raw enough for me. The best crew I liked was Master Don and the Def
Committee. Peeblee Poo was my sister. Also Fearless Four.
Troy L.: In a battle between Furious 5 and Treacherous 3 who would have one? Because you
know there was a time when they were, suppose to battle?
Pow Wow: Mel would have ate there ---, Furious would have ate them. Mel would have got up in them regardless. But Creole and that brother Keith Cowboy (God rest his soul) forget
about. Mel was the Rhymer, but Cowboy would get you jumping. They had a hell of
chemistry together. I have been to plenty of there parties.
Troy L.: Now I have two tapes with Flash rockin the beat box and the Furious killin' it. The
original recording has them at Bronx River doing there thing live. Then I have the tape
where Bam is at the T-Connection rocking the recording they did at Bx. River which is
called a plate which everybody loves including me. But what in the world is a plate?
Pow Wow: I take a tape of a show and make a record out of it, or anything I record on a tape and put it on what is called a plate, and make a record out of it. A plate is vinyl.
Troy L.: So say "Apache" why is that not considered a plate?
Pow Wow: Because it was recorded like a regular record. Bam and me one night made a plate strictly beats made for b-boys. As far as them doing that show of routines for Bronx River center and the plate, the first time I seen them do that was before Bx. River. It was at the Dixie
club. It was the bomb those boys was nice. The was nice at what they do they had a
chemistry.
Troy L.: So in your opinion what club was rockin' the most other than Bronx river?
Pow Wow: Bronx River was not the most rockin' club. Over in that section, it was rockin but over
here by third and Webster ave. the Black door slash Dixie club. Another place called
Rock City by 170, 169 th st.-prospect ave. Ecstasy garage was slammin' too.
Troy L.: So you and your boys use to run up in Disco Fever Too?
Pow Wow: Let me tell you about Disco Fever that was a place for cats tryin' to floss and front. It was boring to me. We as a group never even played in there. Now the brother that use to do the security in there was my man. His name was Mandingo.
Troy L.: Sorry to inform you, but Mandingo passed away about a month ago.(God Bless him)
Pow Wow: (Quiet) nah get out. You just messed me up.
Troy L.: Sorry homeboy, I see you and him were very cool.
Pow Wow : Yes. I knew Mandingo long before the Fever we use to run together in the streets. So when I go to the Fever and see him it be all love and sometimes I might see Bam Bam in there too on security.
Troy L.: Where did the name Soul Sonic Force and Cosmic Force come?
Pow Wow: I do not know where Cosmic came from. Me, Biggs and Bam made the name Soul Sonic Force. Some green book Bam had that was like black awareness and it was titled Soul Sonic. We did not want to say Soul Sonic crew or Soul Sonic 3 so we put the force on the end. The rest is history. We had no promoter we promoted our selves. As L.A. Sunshine said he was paid in pizza and it did not matter to him long as he got to rock that mic he was happy. I felt the same way cause in the early days before our records it was not about money cause I was getting my own money. I just wanted to get on the mic for rec. and girls. It was the latest thing going on at parties. Break dancing played out. I was not to good of a d.j.
Troy L.: Did Sugar Hill Records ever come at the crew to be on their label?
Pow Wow: Yes! We went out there a couple of times. We laid down a track called the “Rhythm of Life”. It was banging. It would have pumped to this day. I asked Sylvia Robinson what did she do with that track. She said “Pow Wow I am not going to lie to you its somewhere buried.” “We weren’t trying to mess with you Zulu’s”. We met Sylvia through Cheryll the Pearl. Sylvia loves her like a daughter.
Pow Wow: Yes! But it fell through.
Troy L.: When 'Planet Rock' came out what clubs where you now hitting.
Pow Wow: The Bronx slowly played out. Roxy’s, CBGB’s, Urban Plaza, Peppermint Lounge, Roseland. We did an anniversary at Roseland it was so big it made the front page of the Sunday Daily News. To be honest I felt Roxy was the best place rockin' at that time. The owner and me be came real cool.
Troy L. : Once you did Roxy and other spots in N.Y. y'all started traveling around the country with Planet Rock, what was the best state for you and the crew that showed you love.
Pow Wow: Chicago! It was club three blocks away from Wrigley field. The dressing room was down in the basement. All I heard the crowd saying was “more” “more” “more”. The mayor had to come down stairs and give us $1500 dollars more for 10 minutes. All we had at the time was “Planet Rock”. We were writing perfect beat at that time on the road. A lot of places we got good responses. There was a club in South Carolina called the Razzle Dazzle that we ripped apart and the feedback we received was unbelievable.
There was another club we liked because it rock so hard it was called the “Rob Benders” in Yonkers. The stairs there was like the stairs at T- Connection. When you got up stairs and sat down the floor actually rocked. After awhile you would think the floor is going to cave in. We rocked countries. We rocked Madrid. Paris, London, Germany, Japan was fly Hawaii was on. We played a place in Florida called “Pin Rod’s” and “Big Daddy’s” that was slamming. Norby Walters was our booking agent when we was runnin' with Tommy Boy records. With his gangster self. He was kool and the gang with me, and he was a powerful brother.
Troy L.: When you played the west coast did you run into Ice T?
Pow Wow : We played at San Diego Padres Baseball field. I’m going to bug you out. When Cheryl Lynn did that record Encore. we where on that card performing as well. Remember it was live? It was live right there that day we were there. Roger Troutman, Gap Band, a group called Goody and Cameo where also there along with us. In L.A. we rocked a club from the movie called “Breakin”. The club was called Radiotron. Who was spinning was a brother called D.J. Glove who was real nice and he was Ice T’s D.J. That was how I met Ice T. One time we linked up at the Joe Louis arena in Detroit with Mel and the Furious Five and rocked it. We took the Bronx to Detroit
Troy L.: Thank you Pow Wow.
Thanks again Pow Wow. I have to say Pow Wow is one of the coolest brothers in Hip-hop since I started doing these story’s, much love and respect to my brother Pow Wow.
Thank you also JayQuan my brother. Troy L. Smith from Harlem, the Grant projects. Read proverbs a chapter a day.